SSB X20 Kaio-Ken Goku, SSB Vegeta, Golden Frieza, and 17 vs God of Desturction Toppo

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SSB X20 Kaio-Ken Goku, SSB Vegeta, Golden Frieza, and 17 vs God of Desturction Toppo
Tweet Topic Started: May 18 2018, 02:00 AM (1,088 Views)
+ Saiyan Paladin	May 25 2018, 12:55 AM Post #16
Posts: 1,920 Group: Elite Member Member #10,232 Joined: September 21, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Kai, Yu Yu Hakusho What Browser do you use? Firefox, Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Berserk	SuperSaiyanGodGogeta May 24 2018, 11:49 PM Yeah, you aren't tracking the discussion. I never said that he didn't get a boost. Him getting a boost simply isn't evidence for being above Goku when they are still shown to be equal afterwards and after the TOP. You can say that as much as you want, but it isn't fact by any means. They're "equal" against Jiren initially, then during their final fight against Jiren they're still "equal". They fight each other as Super Saiyan Blues at the end. I've never claimed the weren't equal as SSB.... Don't put words in my mouth, bruh. SSB Vegeta = SSB Goku < SSBE Vegeta (initial) ~ KKx20 Blue Goku < SSBE Vegeta (pride/resolve boost) Did I come into the wrong part of this discussion? Edited by Saiyan Paladin, May 25 2018, 12:59 AM.



SuperSaiyanGodGogeta	May 25 2018, 01:17 AM Post #17
Posts: 1,228 Group: Member Member #11,951 Joined: December 29, 2014 Gender Male	Yeah, you're not following the discussion. You're derailing it. Goku and Vegeta are shown to be equal with the only mentioned difference being Ultra Instinct. Though that's not really the main point. If you're claiming that Initial SSBE Vegeta and Goku are equal since they fought side by side then the same goes for them after Vegeta's boost. I don't know how you're claiming that Vegeta was 100x stronger than Goku during their final fight when you don't actually have any evidence that Vegeta is as strong as Goku before his boost and stronger than Goku afterwards.
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caryslan	May 25 2018, 02:30 AM Post #18
Posts: 104 Group: Member Member #4,242 Joined: June 16, 2009 Favourite Anime Dragonball, DBZ, Crest of the Stars, Trigun Favourite Manga Spice and Wolf, Inuyasha, Dragonball, Naruto	SuperSaiyanGodGogeta May 24 2018, 11:49 PM Yeah, you aren't tracking the discussion. I never said that he didn't get a boost. Him getting a boost simply isn't evidence for being above Goku when they are still shown to be equal afterwards and after the TOP. You can say that as much as you want, but it isn't fact by any means. They're "equal" against Jiren initially, then during their final fight against Jiren they're still "equal". Goku and Vegeta are only equal when using normal Super Saiyan Blue. This has been the case throughout Super, where its implied Goku and Vegeta are equals in power when they use Super Saiyan Blue. Goku pulled away when he figured out a way to mix the Kaio-Ken to boost Super Saiyan Blue's power, something Vegeta could not match. In the Tournament of Power, Vegeta managed to break his limits, and unlock a more powerful version of Super Saiyan Blue, that at the very least is on par with Kaio-Ken X20 SSB, and likely surpasses it in power. Let me put this another way. Back during the Buu Saga, it was implied Goku and Vegeta were equals as Super Saiyan 2 once Vegeta got his powerboost from becoming a Majin. So, while they were equals as Super Saiyan 2s, we all know Goku had Super Saiyan 3, which far surpassed Majin Vegeta's power. They were equals, but only when they used the same form. Its the same for the ending to Super. Vegeta and Goku are equals when using normal SSB. But Goku can surpass that level by using the Kaio-Ken, and Vegeta has a vastly more powerful version of SSB he can also tap into whenever he wants. Goku and Vegeta are equals, but only to a certain extent. It could be argued that Vegeta is now more powerful then Goku overall since his Limit Breaker SSB Form likely surpasses Goku's SSB X20 Kaio-Ken, and Goku can't use UI at will. On the flip side, with UI, Goku is the clear superior to Vegeta in power and strength. Edited by caryslan, May 25 2018, 02:33 AM.



+ Saiyan Paladin	May 25 2018, 02:33 AM Post #19
Posts: 1,920 Group: Elite Member Member #10,232 Joined: September 21, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Kai, Yu Yu Hakusho What Browser do you use? Firefox, Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Berserk	I'm not derailing anything as I've already answered the OP. I never claimed Vegeta was 100x stronger or any specific amount for that matter. You're putting words in my mouth again. SSBE Vegeta and KKx20 Blue Goku fought Jiren together and they both fought on par with each other. Vegeta then goes up against Toppo and gets whooped, then suddenly he's smashing Toppo when he thinks of his family. Again, SSBE Vegeta (initial) ~ KKx20 Blue Goku < SSBE Vegeta (post Toppo resolve) It's what we're shown in the show. Perhaps you should try rewatching the ToP to get a better grasp of what happened.



SuperSaiyanGodGogeta	May 25 2018, 02:55 AM Post #20
Posts: 1,228 Group: Member Member #11,951 Joined: December 29, 2014 Gender Male	Ignoring them fighting "on par" against Jiren in their final fight? If you're claiming that they're equal since they fought on par initially then the same would go for after Vegeta's boost. If you can't understand something like that then I don't know what to tell you. You're intentionally or unintentionally being obtuse. So during at least one of these instances they weren't equal despite the fact that they looked "on par". And the story doesn't treat Vegeta as stronger than Goku after the TOP despite the latter lacking Ultra Instinct, so the conclusion is rather obvious. Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, May 25 2018, 02:56 AM.
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+ Saiyan Paladin	May 25 2018, 03:06 AM Post #21
Posts: 1,920 Group: Elite Member Member #10,232 Joined: September 21, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Kai, Yu Yu Hakusho What Browser do you use? Firefox, Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Berserk	SuperSaiyanGodGogeta May 25 2018, 02:55 AM If you're claiming that they're equal since they fought on par initially then the same would go for after Vegeta's boost. If you can't understand something like that then I don't know what to tell you. You're intentionally or unintentionally being obtuse. So you're saying Goku gets a boost because Vegeta got one vs. Toppo? That makes zero sense. I don't even think you know what you're disputing anymore. We've established SSB Vegeta = SSB Goku. We've established SSBE Vegeta (initial) = KKx20 Blue Goku. You yourself said Vegeta got a boost vs. Toppo... That boost puts Vegeta ahead of where he was initially, which was on par with KKx20 Blue Goku. Again, SSBE Vegeta (initially) = KKx20 Blue Goku < SSBE Vegeta (post Toppo)



Slifer	May 25 2018, 03:14 AM Post #22
Posts: 3,488 Group: Member Member #10,141 Joined: September 7, 2013	Paladin May 25 2018, 03:06 AM SuperSaiyanGodGogeta May 25 2018, 02:55 AM If you're claiming that they're equal since they fought on par initially then the same would go for after Vegeta's boost. If you can't understand something like that then I don't know what to tell you. You're intentionally or unintentionally being obtuse. So you're saying Goku gets a boost because Vegeta got one vs. Toppo? That makes zero sense. I don't even think you know what you're disputing anymore. We've established SSB Vegeta = SSB Goku. We've established SSBE Vegeta (initial) = KKx20 Blue Goku. You yourself said Vegeta got a boost vs. Toppo... That boost puts Vegeta ahead of where he was initially, which was on par with KKx20 Blue Goku. Again, SSBE Vegeta (initially) = KKx20 Blue Goku < SSBE Vegeta (post Toppo) GoD Toppo > initial SSJBE Vegeta is a given, but he can't have initial SSJBE = SSJBKKx20 since that puts Toppo above both of them. That would break his precious 6-10-15 scale as GoD Toppo has to rival Beerus at 10. Meanwhile x20 Goku and Vegeta post-resolve boost are like 180 lol. It's hilarious how many hoops he has to jump through to keep it going. Edited by Slifer, May 25 2018, 03:21 AM.



SuperSaiyanGodGogeta	May 25 2018, 03:20 AM Post #23
Posts: 1,228 Group: Member Member #11,951 Joined: December 29, 2014 Gender Male	You've established Initial SSBE Vegeta=Goku based on what? Them fighting "on par"? They did that after Vegeta's boost. Which means that they weren't equal during at least one of the two fights despite looking "on par". This isn't hard to understand. That's the problem. You have no evidence and you're dodging the question because you don't have an argument. That or you don't even understand the logic that follows from your own argument. I'm asking for the evidence of them being equal initially. I'm asking for the evidence of Vegeta being stronger after the boost. All you've said is that they fought "on par" initially and that's why they're equal. And I've already refuted this by bringing up the fact that they fought on par after Vegeta's boost. Now I'm asking for the evidence for them being on par in the first instance instead of the second and all you're saying is that they're equal since they fought on par. Your argument is incoherent circular logic and it's more than obvious that you don't know what you're talking about. Now after the TOP, the story doesn't treat Vegeta as stronger than Goku. Them only being in Blue is irrelevant. It wouldn't matter if they were in base, Super Saiyan or God. The story treats them as overall equals outside of Ultra Instinct. You don't have any evidence. I could just easily say: SSB Kaiokenx20 Goku=SSBE Vegeta(Resolve Boost)>SSBE Vegeta(Initial) based on Goku fighting on par with Vegeta after his resolve boost and the story treating Goku and Vegeta as equals after the TOP. If you can't see this then I recommend you take your own advice and watch the show again so you can grasp what actually happened. Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, May 25 2018, 03:41 AM.
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Dankness Lava	May 25 2018, 03:35 AM Post #24
Dankness Forever Posts: 6,348 Group: Tha Dankness Member #9,197 Joined: March 16, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime Hajime no Ippo What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga One Piece	Vegeta was stronger than Goku, but that's because of his rage. Him being equal later means nothing.



+ Saiyan Paladin	May 25 2018, 03:47 AM Post #25
Posts: 1,920 Group: Elite Member Member #10,232 Joined: September 21, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Kai, Yu Yu Hakusho What Browser do you use? Firefox, Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Berserk	You mean after the Final Explosion when Vegeta was stated to have next to no power left? You're saying they fought on par then?



SuperSaiyanGodGogeta	May 25 2018, 03:49 AM Post #26
Posts: 1,228 Group: Member Member #11,951 Joined: December 29, 2014 Gender Male	The fight where Jiren deemed that same Post Final Explosion Vegeta as above Toppo. Yes that fight. Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, May 25 2018, 03:54 AM.
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+ Pointer	May 25 2018, 04:07 AM Post #27
... Posts: 7,062 Group: Elite Member Member #8,812 Joined: January 5, 2013 Gender Male	Goku alone is toppo tier if they can do a nice teamwork they might ens up winning this



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